Proposal discussion: pre-proposal DAOverse v2

[Alchimist]

Thx again scene…

i agree the ingame economics have to be calculated carefully and the inflation etc has to get under control…

To ensure stability and mitigate the impact of failed ingame balancing or hyperinflation on the token, we propose the use of three interconnected currencies within the DAOverse, catering to different use cases.

1. Ingame Currencies:
   In every game within the DAOverse (later stage, since we aim to make the DAOverse a multi project platform), we implement an ingame gold currency tailored to the specific needs of each game. This allows for a diverse range of gameplay experiences connected to the base game through portals in the Main City of Teel.

2. DVG (DAOverse Gold):
   serves as the currency for trading NFTs, premiums, and services on marketplaces and exchanges. It will be rewarded in limited quantities through special ingame events and development support contracts. Our Goal is to make this Exchange tradeable and maybe on a later stage useable in Real life via the XPOS.

3. Governance Token:
   The governance token enables participation in the DAO’s decision-making processes, focusing on the development of the DAOverse. It is not utilized for NFTs or ingame transactions, but rather traded on exchanges. Ownership of the token is a prerequisite for voting on crucial development decisions.

I agree that this proposal alone provides limited resources to develop a full-fledged game or expand into a gaming metaverse. Therefore, our plan includes conducting a token sale to attract seed investors, angels, and other blockchain teams. This will help us secure the necessary developer power to achieve our goals. The token sale also serves as a backup plan, ensuring that if the proposal does not succeed, we can still pursue alternative avenues such as seeking funding from traditional startup VCs and angel investors. We will prioritize the development of a prototype and establishing valuable connections to navigate the standard startup funding path.

Regarding the player bases i have already thought of each Aspect and got a framework to develop. We don’t have them implemented yet, since if we would apply with such a ready game we would not go with 60k $ and sell it for some millions to a blockchain

But here are my thoughts for the player system:

1. Discoverers:

• Create a vast and immersive game world with hidden areas, secrets, and exploration opportunities.
• Design unique and visually stunning locations, rewarding players who venture off the beaten path with captivating discoveries.
• Introduce collectibles, rare items, or lore fragments that can only be found through exploration, encouraging Discoverers to delve deeper into the game world, those could be rewarded with the premium tokens.

2. Rankers:

• Implement leaderboards and competitive gameplay mechanics to appeal to players who enjoy grinding and leveling up.
• Offer rewards, exclusive titles, or cosmetic enhancements for achieving high rankings or completing challenging tasks.
• Introduce timed events, tournaments, or competitive game modes where Rankers can showcase their skills and strive for the top spots, those could be rewarded with the premium tokens.

3. Socializers:

• Create social hubs or gathering places within the game where players can interact, chat, and form communities.
• Implement robust communication features such as in-game chat, voice chat, or guild systems to facilitate socializing.
• Organize social events, parties, or festivals that encourage players to connect, collaborate, and build friendships within the game world, those could be rewarded with the premium tokens.

4. Achievers:

• Design a comprehensive quest system with diverse objectives, storylines, and meaningful rewards.
• Develop a rich lore that engages players and provides a sense of accomplishment upon completing quests or unraveling the game’s narrative.
• Introduce achievements, badges, or titles that recognize and showcase players’ progress and dedication to completing various in-game challenges, those could be rewarded with the premium tokens.

5. Game Theorists:

• Provide intricate game mechanics and systems that allow for theory crafting and strategic decision-making.
• Offer opportunities for players to optimize character builds, experiment with different playstyles, and discover effective strategies.
• Include hidden mechanics, secret combinations, or puzzle-like elements that reward players who engage in analytical thinking and exploration, those could be rewarded with the premium tokens.

[Akira]

Hi @Alchimist and @KuzoIV,

I like the dedication to the project and it will probably be a bumby road ahead, as game development can be underestimated.

I have some general game development questions:

1. What engine will you guys use? (I think Unreal was showcased last time)

2. What will be the main focus? (gameplay/graphics/story)

3. What is the core mechanic and the secondary mechanics?

4. Will there be a focus on optimization for low spec systems?

[SCENE]

Thank you @Alchimist.

Looking forward to the presentation for the execution plan, mainly the “How” if there is any.

Hopefully the questions will get answered in due time.

• Most of the answers are “We will implement this and that”. It’s a nice story.
• The key question is “how” are you going to implement everything you’ve just said with only 3 developers.
• I assume there is no game economy designer yet which is a critical part of any gaming company.

Thank you @Akira for asking those questions, those are the queries I also wanted to ask, regarding optimization for low specs systems.

• This is especially important because it determines your market size and opportunity.
• Most game companies tend to optimize it under a certain rate to make sure majority of the market can be absorbed
• Your market share determines your revenue and so on, it affects everything.

Just randomly drew a filter breakdown of why it affects everything. List is not exhaustive.

[Alchimist]

Thx Akira for the Questions

1. yes we plan to make use of the Unreal Engine to bring the most state of the art user experience.

2. Main Focus will be the Gameplay and Story Elements, since in the beginning we aim for a social community framework (which is boosted by Story Elements) and try to get esport relevant with the pvp mode, why Gameplay is most relevant. Though we can’t forget the Graphics since we need to possibly scale them for every System.

3. Mechanics:

Core Mechanic:
The core mechanic of the DAOverse will be centered around characters (with NFTs) and exploration. Players can choose of a big pool of characters and embark on a vast open-world adventure. The primary focus would be on allowing players to freely explore the game world, discover new areas, and interact with various elements and NPCs.

The second mechanic would be the Combat System. The game aims to feature an engaging combat system, allowing players to engage in battles with monsters, other players, or challenging bosses. Different abilities, strategies, and tactics can be employed to overcome opponents and progress in the game. Later this shall be leveraged to esports compability with a PVP Arena Mode.

Secondary Mechanics:

Crafting and Economy:
Implementing a robust crafting system and player-driven economy. Players can gather resources, craft items, and engage in trading and commerce within the game world. This would provide opportunities for players to specialize in crafting, acquire rare materials, and participate in a dynamic player-driven market. This also will result in Real Life use cases and services.

Quests and Lore:
Offering a rich quest system and immersive lore. Players can undertake various quests, unravel the game’s story, and interact with NPCs to complete objectives and uncover the mysteries of the DAOverse. This would cater to players who enjoy engaging in quests, progressing the game’s narrative, and experiencing a deep and captivating lore.

Social Interactions:
Facilitating social interactions and player collaboration. The game will include features such as guilds, player housing, or social hubs where players can connect, form alliances, and engage in cooperative gameplay. This would cater to players who enjoy socializing, forming communities, and working together towards common goals.

4. Yes, we think of an optimization of the requirements for steam deck (or steam deck like PC Systems). with proper optimization techniques and design choices, we can create a version of the game that runs smoothly on low-spec systems, including the Steam Deck. This should be achieveable with this engine and this could bring a Mainstream player base into reach.

[Akira]

Thank you for for awnsering my questions!

I agree with @SCENE as well and he asked some great questions.

The main problem I see as well is that the scope of the project is way to big for the amount of developers in the first year. If you can realise everything you said in this thread within a year you would have the most effective and efficient team there is.

So my suggestion would be to limit the scope or to expand the development time, maybe you have already done this and we will see a more indept planning of the mvp milestones down the road

[Alchimist]

yes, you are totally correct. This is much too big for a small project to handle with 60k and one year.

Everything i told now is the plan behind it. Which takes definetely more ressources.

This 60k, 1 year will bring us to the Prototype level. A playable version in small. Hardwired Connected to FX Ecosystem with all benefits it brings in the future development of the following years.

with this prototype we will launch the ICO and gather the needed ressources for the next 2 years and pay back the funding amount to the community via airdrop and Whitelist spots…

We will showcase a in game demo in a few days with basic level aspects of the game… All basic framework which still needs a better UI etc…

parts we can already show

Multi inventory system
Third person mode
Ai NPC and Mobs
Mounts
Guild (clan system)
Crafting system
Vendor system
Skill tree
Quests
Chat window
Looting (harvesting loot boxes)
Dueling
Context menu for characters and items

Sharing also data tables for in-game items
We will also showcase our characters built, weapons and other items

[SCENE]

Now, that represents a more reasonable timeframe and budget for completing a prototype or playable chapter within the first year.

• The initial concept was overly ambitious, which is what initially piqued my interest in your execution strategy.

Looking forward to the showcase!

[Alchimist]

since you were mainly interested in the tokenomics

here is the pre whitepaper version

Main Focus Group demands

Players

• Depth of gameplay
• low entry barrier
• rewarding feeling
• making cash is nice bonus

Investors

• potential high returns
• Token long term value
• Have voting power

Developers

• earn by contribution to the project
• Have voting power

To tackle those demands we consider following tokenomics for NFTs, DVG coin and Governance token

Abbreviations:

NFT = non fungible token, (eg. Characters, housing, land, items, skins)
DVG = Blockchain coin which can be used to pay for NFTs and premiums
ATHEM = Governance Token which can be used to vote in the DAO

NFT

1. Base Characters; not limited; Minted for a USDT pegged amount to keep entry barrier stable (eg. 50 USDT) bought with FX or DVG
2. Specials and Skins; limited versions; varying price, Value from rarity, tradeable
3. Housing and land; every new extension gets a fixed amount of land to buy and build housing/services, tradeable AND lendable
4. All NFTs will be minted for fixed Price that will be determined right before the launch regarding the demand and rarity. Limited special version can be issued for special events like hackathons or Blockchain events.
5. All NFTs (except the free starter NFT) can be traded on NFT-marketplaces where the DAOverse distribution gets a 5% premium on every trade
6. Some NFTs can be lended for terms that are contracted by both participating wallets.
   (eg. renting a house or Item for 2% of the buying price per week for X weeks, 5% revenue fee to distribute)

DVG

1. Fixed Amount of coins (eg. 100million) to have a deflationary character
2. Low fees, Blockchain must be capable of transactions for max 0.1 USD
3. First Issuance:
   10% private / Seed Sale with max 1% wallet to reduce post release dumping
   5% DAOverse Treasury
   10% public sale
   5% Liquidity
   5% Development
   5% Marketing
   60% rewards/allocation

Development/Marketing/Treasury wallets will be unlocked quarterly over a year
Starting Liquidity will be locked for a year

4. Regular Issuance from the rewards/allocation wallet will be through create to earn (game development, eg. 50-1.000 USDT worth of DVG, depends on complexity)
   and play to earn, eg. Daily or once per character special ingame events with give DVG (the amount will be tracked and issued once a day/hour to reduce total amount of transactions and costs, first thought would be around 2 USDT per hour, capped at 10 usdt per daily payout per wallet, see “Abstract Regular Issuance of ingame currencies”)
5. All sales, marketplace trades and lending contracts will have a 5% Fee which is distributed as 2,5% for development wallet, 1% for Liquidity Wallet, 1% for marketing wallet and 0,5% DAOverse Treasury wallet.
6. Trades that are done in other currencies will result in a buyback and distributed back into the Rewards/Allocation wallet with standard fee distribution.

ATHEM:

1. Fixed amount (100M)
2. In the beginning 100% Athem coins will be in the possession of the daoverse games company
3. Distribution will start with the conversion to the DAO
4. Early Contributors, developers and Investors will have a Round table to discuss the Distribution after the successful launch of the V1 Game.
5. The distribution plan should result in a progressive reduction of the DAOverse games Voting power over a span of 5-10 years, to a minimum of 25%.
6. Not tradeable from start, might be opened for trade after Launch and discussion.
7. Since the Treasury will get Inflows by trading fees, the issuance of a quarterly Dividend to all Athem holders is proposed.

Abstract Regular Issuance of ingame currencies:
Most of the Ingame Content is resolved with non-blockchain ingame currencies, specific for each game. Like regular items, crafting etc. as you know it from games like World of Warcraft, Skyrim, League of Legends etc.
DVG is issued daily at 00:00 GMT in a restricted amount for completing tasks, like special events, dungeons, rare drops – like daily Quests

DVG is also issued directly for completing “once in a lifetime” tasks like exploration Achievements or winning a leaderboard competition etc.

Special Events which are dropping DVG are available to higher Tier Profiles only.
The Maximum daily Issuance of DVG could be set to around 10-20 USDT worth of DVG and the content should be created to allow an average income of 2 USDT worth of DVG per hour of casual playtime.
once in a lifetime events won’t be affected by the daily limit.
Once in a lifetime events can only be solved once per wallet and NFT.
To play the game on base level no information in the profile is needed. Just the wallet connection and the NFTs needing to be staked to play and having a stakelock for 24h.
To solve the issue of someone farming special events with multiple wallets or using prohibited services we would allow special events and services only for higher Tier profiles.
Bringing Profiles to Higher Tiers don’t need additional payments but need to provide additional data, for example KYC or other consumer data.

[Alchimist]

since the discussion is running positively i will go and prepare the Whitepaper over the next days.

@KuzoIV could have the ingame Demo ready by end of the week.
if anybody has something else to demand or question please say a word.

someone of the team maybe?
@indra @zaccheah @DavidK

[SCENE]

Just a suggestion for your WP:

An idea should always be accompanied with an execution plan and the purpose for implementing it.

Problem: → Identify an issue in the gaming market
Idea: → Solving an issue - E.g. Low entry barrier
Execution: → Elaborate how you plan to take the idea forward from dream to reality
Purpose: → Rationale for doing so, why is this needed, how will this help
Timeline: → Hitting reasonable-timed milestones

Typically, an idea-only proposition is viewed as lacking substance.

As for the economy game design, hopefully that will get sorted out in due time, I would say it’s one of the core issues that needs addressing at the moment.

A game’s economy design is the bread and butter of its success.

Highly recommended: → You can read this to understand why, it’s just a short brief summary.

---

Idea: → I’m gonna make humans fly → (It always stops here)
Execution: ???
Purpose: ???

---

Be clear and thorough when describing how you’ll proceed with the notion and explain why it matters.

It’s easy to become enthusiastic about an idea and equally easy to let it vanish into obscurity if it’s not mapped out from the start. This is how milestones are missed and forgotten.

I’m accustomed to hearing others paint stories, so I’m not immediately swayed or influenced, yet.

---

Even Runescape hired several real-world economists to oversee and manage its economic health.

[Alchimist]

as for the economy i already has mostly planned it out, just again thx for giving me the need to write it down.

I wont go as deep as “how much ingame gold will drop from a single monster” or “how much which item will cost”… thats something to do while developing and alpha/beta testing

this in-game economics below will be the one used for the GAME, not for the platform… this wont affect the DVG coin or Athem governance token… and again, not all this can and will be included in the prototype version for 60k I will write a FULL whitepaper and a prototype proposal whitepaper.
One could see the prototype phase we request here as proof of concept.

DAOverse in-game economics

1. In-Game Currency (will be determined and aligned with the base story, might be Lead and Gold because of the Alchemist/Athempunk setting):
   Implementation of a primary in-game currency that can be earned through various activities such as quests, monster kills, and in-game achievements. This currency can be used for basic transactions, purchasing common items, and engaging in player-to-player trading. It provides a foundation for the overall economy and ensures all players have access to a baseline currency.
2. Player-Driven Market:
   Introduction of a player-driven market where players can buy and sell items, equipment, and resources. This creates opportunities for traders and entrepreneurs to profit by identifying market trends and engaging in strategic buying and selling. It also encourages social interaction and collaboration between players as they negotiate and trade with each other.
3. Crafting and Gathering Professions:
   Including a robust crafting and gathering system that allows players to acquire raw materials, craft items, and enhance equipment. This appeals to players who enjoy the process of resource collection, item creation, and optimizing their character’s gear. Crafted items can be valuable and sought after in the player-driven market, providing opportunities for dedicated crafters to generate income.
4. Auction House and Contracts:
   Implement an auction house system where players can list items for sale with a set price or participate in bidding. This allows for efficient trading and easy access to a wide range of items. Additionally, implementation of an incorporating contract systems that enable players to create custom agreements for services, such as hiring mercenaries or commissioning custom-made items.
   4.a After PVP and additional territories are implemented, there will be an introduction of a territory-based trading system. The game world will then be divided into different territories, each with its trading post. Players can buy, sell, and trade items within their territory, but can also engage in cross-territory trading by physically transporting goods from one trading post to another. This opens up the PVP Option for hiring mercenaries or creating Piracy parties. This trading system promotes strategic trading and creates opportunities for players to profit from regional price differences.
5. Player Housing and Decorations:
   Introduction of a player housing system that allows players to own and customize their own virtual homes. Provision of a variety of furniture, decorations, and cosmetic items that players can acquire or craft to personalize their living spaces. This appeals to socializers and players who enjoy customization and self-expression. (Main Parts will be DVG/NFT based, soul-bound items for in-game gold)
6. In-Game Events and Challenges:
   Organization of regular in-game events and challenges that offer unique rewards and opportunities for players to showcase their skills. These can include PvP tournaments, raid boss encounters, treasure hunts, or time-limited quests. Such events incentivize different player types, including rankers, achievers, and game theorists, to participate actively and be rewarded for their efforts.

Endgame Outlets

1. High-End Item Upgrades:
   Introduction of a system where players can spend a substantial amount of gold to upgrade their high-end items, enhancing their stats or unlocking unique abilities. This encourages players to invest their accumulated wealth into improving their gear, providing a gold sink while also promoting progression and character advancement.

2. Rare Collectibles and Cosmetics:
   Creation of an in-game marketplace for exclusive and rare collectible items, such as limited-edition mounts, pets, or cosmetic skins. These items can be priced at a significant amount of gold, giving wealthy players an outlet to showcase their status and spend their excess wealth. The scarcity of these items ensures their long-term value and prevents inflation. These Items are thought to be soul-bound and not tradeable via NFT marketplace.

3. Player-Owned Businesses:
   Implementation of a system where players can establish and manage in-game businesses, such as taverns, shops, or crafting workshops. These businesses require a substantial investment of gold to set up and maintain, providing an ongoing sink for players’ wealth. Additionally, these establishments can generate income through sales, creating a dynamic player-driven economy. (This might not be accessible with in-game Gold, but with DVG)

4. Guild or Faction Contributions:
   Introduction of a mechanism where players can donate gold to their guild or faction to fund special projects, infrastructure upgrades, or communal benefits. This encourages players to contribute to the collective progress and growth of their community, while also reducing the accumulation of excessive personal wealth.

5. Inflation-Adjusted Economy:
   Implementation of an automated system that monitors the overall wealth and inflation rate in the game. As the economy becomes inflated, the prices of certain high-value items or services can be adjusted accordingly to maintain a healthy balance. This ensures that the value of gold remains stable and prevents extreme stockpiling.

By implementing these currency outlets, players are provided with attractive options to spend their accumulated wealth, reducing the issue of infinite stockpiling of gold in the endgame. It’s important to strike a balance where players feel rewarded for their efforts while ensuring that the overall economy remains stable and engaging for all participants in the DAOverse.

[SCENE]

I see, so you took the role of the economy game designer.

Just had to double check and make sure you guys had plans for the game’s economic design and financial structure as the initial employment timetable only stated 1 game developer and 2 code developer.

---

Last question before the showcase:

You may have mentioned it before but may I know who your target audience is?

Target audience and your estimated numbers:

• PC or Mobile? → I’m assuming PC.

There’s a surge in mobile games in recent years but PC and Console games are still just as popular.

• There are data points that reinforces it.

To better understand who your primary audience is, it would be helpful to have a presentation of your target market as there are a variety of gamers within the gaming sphere. From there, we can narrow it down and infer more effectively.

• Are you positioning your product to cater more towards Pay-To-Win players? Genshin Impact did.
• These will afterwards be utilized to identify your market size, refine, and increase the efficacy of your marketing, making it more cost-effective as well.

---

The gaming subgenre that you’re aiming for is Open-World MMORPG.

For everyone’s awareness, this is literally the toughest subgenre out of every game category.

While I won’t say it’s impossible, it is quite ambitious—possibly even too ambitious without having limitless resources, a full team, and a long timeframe.

---

To put things into perspective and give you an idea of how challenging it is to create:

1. Diablo IV took Blizzard 4 years to conceptualize and 9 years to develop, despite having a nearly limitless budget and size.

• It ultimately took 13 years in total.

2. Lost Ark, a recent Korean game that gained popularity in the gaming world.

• They began conceptualizing prior to 2011 and just began to develop after 2011, mass released in 2022. They took more than 10 years and also used unreal engine.

With what has been discussed, everyone, including the proposers, should come into the realization that whether the initial vision of the proposal seem realistic or not, the judgement ultimately belongs to you.

---

• I have to clarify that I’m not opposed to the individuals who are building DAOverse and the budget they are seeking, but the Project Idea itself requires a great deal of resources to execute and usher it into fruition. Even $1 million in funding would still be insufficient.
• I have no doubt that @Alchimist and @KuzoIV are intelligent individuals but it’s also important to take a step back and be aware of everything you’ve just described.
• Game development is more than just hiring game developers or story-telling. It isn’t code and play.
• I’m simply stating these as I wouldn’t want to see a proposal pass, just to see milestones not achieved in the future.

MMORPG, especially Open-World style, require a lot of money sink rebalancing, knowing how intricate its market place can be, how its trading system revolves around the economy, the resources that are distributed in-game, the mathematics behind it, controlling inflation and adjusting the rarity loot table while making sure the pace of both the player and game progression is steady.

Cheers.

[Alchimist]

Yes i have to agree with that and i know how long and expensive it is to create a full game… especially in MMO RPG… this concept in full would require AT LEAST 20m, more likely upwards of that.

but…

we never aimed to build a full game all at once…

The concept behind the DAOverse is to jumpstart development by our company to set a working base framework and then develop it further over years together with the community via create to earn and the upcoming DAO and give a possibility for external developers to create their own games and connect it to the daoverse using our base product and character/model libraries…

Our slogan is “Lets Build this world. Together.” not “here you have a 120 million aaa game. please have fun”

this might be a concept never tried in that form before, but the Upcoming Crypto world with its massive focus on open source and community power is the first time in game development history this can actually work…

60k is a small price to pay for such a proof of concept.
And as this Proof lands after 12 months, the foundation is laid to bring a massive scale of investors by the token launch from many blockchain communities, which we all aim to connect over the years.

[SCENE]

Oh yes, I did mention that I’m not opposed to the budget you are seeking, it’s the idea itself.

I’m asserting that every point you made in the earlier posts is exactly what a multimillion dollar business is doing but with 3 developers.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt even though I’m a pretty conservative person.

• Never say never, right?

[Alchimist]

goal is to use the 3-6 developers + us to create the proof of concept base game and then seek a big investor round to multiply this by 10-20… thats why the token sale is needed

[Alchimist]

@SCENE

• Never say never, right?

“Once in a while there is a person who doesn’t know that some things don’t work and just accidentaly did it”

[SCENE]

I have to put this bluntly though.

Pitching this idea on-stage to VCs/Angels who dabble in game investments and know how it works inside and outside, I can guarantee you that they will say,

• Let’s cut the bullshit, how will you execute this? Realism, it’s standard business procedure.

But looking as you guys already have a showcase and not just exaggerated words, comments will be reserved for later.

---

A vast world of complexity already exists within the Web2 MMORPG itself.

Introducing blockchain as a new layer of complexity into the mix is a pretty far-fetched idea, especially when you realize each component, such as the loot, currency, and everything else is tied to the market and then to the blockchain.

• Not impossible for a full team, though it will still be hard.

[bigwhales]

i love dao verse
keep it bro

[Alchimist]

Thanks to all participants.

We are currently in the early stages of drafting our proposal, and we are gathering data from the community to see what can be adjusted and improved upon. We have not yet started our presentation, but we plan to do so at the beginning of the week, covering the text as i mentioned above.

We have received great inputs and crucial points from our amazing community, which will greatly aid us in our next steps. We understand that this is not a competition of who is right, but more about finding the most logical and feasible solutions. We appreciate all comments and viewpoints, and rest assured that everything said is being carefully considered. I am taking my notes for the v2 draft.

[Alchimist]

Hey everybody,

shady and i just talked about the presentation and we can show really much nice stuff.

I am personally away on a investment and insurance conference for the upcoming two days, so shady will take these two days to refine some things in the meantime.

At tuesday evening we will discuss the actual presentation and i think after that we can talk about a Date when we can showcase our state of the project to the team and community…